Aircraft Repositioning post Customs

I5xswipe

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Aug 26, 2014
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52
Location
Michigan
Hello,

I may have missed this in another post, but did not see it in "search."

After a quick review in APDL, I don't see a best option for aircraft repositioning after a flight segment, without the intention of flight. I created a custom "payroll" category and assigned only Legality. I did not assign Flight Time, as it will not be a flight segment, not having a Takeoff and Landing.

However, it appears APDL is not counting this towards the FDP as it should.

"A flightcrew member, after the passengers deplane, is assigned to move the aircraft from a gate to the hanger or from the customs area to a domestic gate. Is this aircraft movement part of the FDP?"

"Yes. Part 117.3 states that a FDP ends when the aircraft
is parked after the last flight and there is no intention for
further aircraft movement by the same flightcrew member.?
The phrase further aircraft movement? does not say that
the movement must be for the purpose of flight; hence,
moving the aircraft to reposition it would be included in a
FDP and establish the FDP end point.?"​

Does APDL track this, if so what are the appropriate selections?
 
Last edited:

Andy Adams

Support Engineer
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We are aware of a few cases where FDP needs to be tracked that doesn't apply to flight time.

For now, the selection "apply to flight time" means the same thing as "apply to FDP". If you set that category to "apply to flight time" it will work properly for you. *(See edit below)

We are working to separate that into two separate options in a future update.

EDIT: Doing the above would add an additional segment to your duty period and affect your table B limits accordingly. Section G, ii on page 7 of this document

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/Part117/Part117_Interps/media/Flight Duty Clarification.pdf

defines "flight segment" as consisting of a takeoff and landing. So using the above method would extend the FDP as needed but at the expense of messing up the segments for that duty period. So that would mean as of now, APDL cannot properly track this situation.
 
Last edited:

I5xswipe

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
52
Location
Michigan
We are aware of a few cases where FDP needs to be tracked that doesn't apply to flight time.

For now, the selection "apply to flight time" means the same thing as "apply to FDP". If you set that category to "apply to flight time" it will work properly for you. *(See edit below)

We are working to separate that into two separate options in a future update.

EDIT: Doing the above would add an additional segment to your duty period and affect your table B limits accordingly. Section G, ii on page 7 of this document

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/Part117/Part117_Interps/media/Flight Duty Clarification.pdf

defines "flight segment" as consisting of a takeoff and landing. So using the above method would extend the FDP as needed but at the expense of messing up the segments for that duty period. So that would mean as of now, APDL cannot properly track this situation.
Yes, it adds a segment, which is problematic and would show a legal issue for say my situation today, where I had maxed out FDP and had to take an FDP extension to reposition the aircraft.
 

diedrichg

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APDL Beta Team
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Sep 16, 2008
Messages
1,501
There is nothing wrong with the app showing a legal issue with FDP if you are in an extension, APDL is just warning you that you have exceeded the standard limit.

We may need to think about a way to confirm with the app that an extension is in place and to provide a caution rather than a warning. So the sequence would be: Add extension and go over FDP. Get red warning. Accept the warning and tell the app this is an extension. (@Andy, do we have tracking for one extension per rest period?) The warning will now go to a yellow caution until the extension has been exceeded when it will go red warning again.
 

Andy Adams

Support Engineer
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Messages
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Location
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I believe I5xswipe was saying APDL would flag a legality issue when it shouldn't because of the additional segment being added, where without the additional segment, it is legal because it falls within the limits of a FDP extension.

Yes, we are tracking just one extension at a time. See the Legality Details Page, explained here in docs Legality Detail - APDL - WIKI
 

I5xswipe

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Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
52
Location
Michigan
I believe I5xswipe was saying APDL would flag a legality issue when it shouldn't because of the additional segment being added, where without the additional segment, it is legal because it falls within the limits of a FDP extension.

Yes, we are tracking just one extension at a time. See the Legality Details Page, explained here in docs Legality Detail - APDL - WIKI
That is correct, Mr. Adam understand fully the issue.

I had an 11:40EST show, with 4 legs plus a ground reposition (13hr FDP). If you track the reposition (flight segment), APDL sees 5 segments. (12.5 hr FDP). Now my day is scheduled illegal and thus no ability to exercise extension of you were using APDL as sole reference before it even starts.

If you don't track the ground reposition, you jeopardize violating 117.
 
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