New Again User

yankee clipper

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2006
Messages
53
I have been following the thread from “Brand New User … Many Questions” with interest.
Think I made some mistakes in my settings, will need to ask a series of questions to regain my understanding of the program. First, some definitions of the program, actual menu selections are in bold:

Raw data = manually entered times (scheduled and actual) on the APDL PPC (View)(Logbook Page) screen

Timezones in APDL PPC
1. In the (Timezone) menu, at the bottom of the screen, the options of (Logbook), (Zulu), (Local) or (Domicile) denote the timezone of the manually entered and displayed OUT/IN times (raw data) in APDL PPC, correct?

Example 1:
If (Timezone) (Zulu) is CHECKED; and annunciated at top of the screen with Logpage (Zulu), then APDL treats these raw data times as ZULU-times for subsequent synch'ing.


2. In (Options)(Preferences)(Time Zone Settings) the selection of a “Logbook zone” ONLY affects HOW LBP PC treats and then displays (in LBP PC) the raw data times (as in Example 1) during an APDL synch, correct?
Example 2:
In (Timezone) menu (Zulu) is checked
In (Options)(Preferences)(Time Zone Settings) the “Logbook” zone is set to “UTC-5”


Raw data:

APDL OUT: 1500 (Z)
APDL IN: 1630 (Z)

After synchronizing this APDL PPC entry, then LBP PC displays:
OUT: 1000
IN: 1130

Both times reflecting UTC-5


Am I correct in these definitions???


More questions to come after your reply.
Thanks
 

Eric Addis

Senior Support Engineer
Staff member
Joined
Jan 18, 2003
Messages
828
Location
DTW
I have been following the thread from “Brand New User … Many Questions” with interest.
Think I made some mistakes in my settings, will need to ask a series of questions to regain my understanding of the program. First, some definitions of the program, actual menu selections are in bold:

Raw data = manually entered times (scheduled and actual) on the APDL PPC (View)(Logbook Page) screen
Timezones in APDL PPC
1. In the (Timezone) menu, at the bottom of the screen, the options of (Logbook), (Zulu), (Local) or (Domicile) denote the timezone of the manually entered and displayed OUT/IN times (raw data) in APDL PPC, correct?

The timezone at the bottom of the screen changes all times on the logpage to that time zone. Also any data you enter on that page should be in the selected timezone. Alot of us import our schedules in LOCAL because that is what they are published in and then change the Logpage to ZULU/GMT to enter the actuall times because that is what the FMS shows time in.

Example 1:
If (Timezone) (Zulu) is CHECKED; and annunciated at top of the screen with Logpage (Zulu), then APDL treats these raw data times as ZULU-times for subsequent synch'ing.

NO, Under OPTIONS....Prefs....Timezone Settings all times set TO Logbook pro FROM APDL are converted to to the LOGBOOK TIMEZONE setting.

2. In (Options)(Preferences)(Time Zone Settings) the selection of a “Logbook zone” ONLY affects HOW LBP PC treats and then displays (in LBP PC) the raw data times (as in Example 1) during an APDL synch, correct?
Example 2:
In (Timezone) menu (Zulu) is checked
In (Options)(Preferences)(Time Zone Settings) the “Logbook” zone is set to “UTC-5”


If Logbook Timezone is UTC-5 all time sent from APDL to Logbook Pro will be sent to the PC in UTC -5 minus a hour for DST being in effect.

The Import Schedule in is the timezone your company publishes its schedules in. A lot use LOCAL and tell APDL to use airport timezones during an import from the schedule importer. It has nothing to do with entering data manually into the device. Any data entered manually into the device needs to match the Logpage's timezone that you set when view the logpage.

Raw data:

APDL OUT: 1500 (Z)
APDL IN: 1630 (Z)

After synchronizing this APDL PPC entry, then LBP PC displays:
OUT: 1000
IN: 1130

Both times reflecting UTC-5


Technically wrong because DST is in effect currently and the offset is UTC -4.

Here are the Airport Settings:

EASTERN UTC -5 DST checked for any airport that uses DST during the year.
CENTRAL UTC -6 DST checked for any airport that uses DST during the year.
MOUNTAIN UTC -7 DST checked for any airport that uses DST during the year.
PACIFIC UTC -8 DST checked for any airport that uses DST during the year.

Then under OPTIONS...PREFS...TIMEZONE SETTINGS you should have the following

DOMICILE UTC -X
DST CHECKED (if your bases uses DST at any time during the year)

LOGBOOK UTC -X
DST CHECKED (if you use DST at any time during the year where you keep your logbook) NOTE: You should never changes this once set. That way you will always know what timezone your Logbook is kept in)

IMPORT SCHEDULES IN: (NORMALY) LOCAL This is the timezone that your company publishes your flying schedule in that you will be pasting into the schedule importer for APDL.

DST is in effect check box. This box is currently checked and is the only box you need to change 2x a year for DST. The checkboxes for DST in the airport settings are never changed.
 

yankee clipper

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2006
Messages
53
Part II, New Again User

My response/questions are in BLUE



Timezones in APDL
1. In the (Timezone) menu, at the bottom of the screen, the options of (Logbook), (Zulu), (Local) or (Domicile) denote the timezone of the manually entered and displayed OUT/IN times (raw data) in APDL, correct?

The timezone at the bottom of the screen changes all times on the logpage to that time zone. Also any data you enter on that page should be in the selected timezone. Alot of us import our schedules in LOCAL because that is what they are published in and then change the Logpage to ZULU/GMT to enter the actuall times because that is what the FMS shows time in.

Agreed and understood.

Example 1:
If (Timezone) (Zulu) is CHECKED; and annunciated at top of the screen with Logpage (Zulu), then APDL treats these raw data times as ZULU-times for subsequent synch’ing.

NO, Under OPTIONS....Prefs....Timezone Settings all times set TO Logbook pro FROM APDL are converted to to the LOGBOOK TIMEZONE setting.


I think, we understand the process the same way.
All “time conversions” occur within the APDL PPC environment. LBP PC is just a “dumb” receiver of whatever “numbers” come from APDL PPC.


Example:
If (Timezone) (Zulu) is CHECKED; and annunciated at top of the screen with Logpage (Zulu), then APDL treats these raw data times as ZULU-times. It sends these ZULU times to (Options)(Preferences)(Time Zone Settings)(Logbook) and converts them according to the selected UTC offset, e.g. UTC-5, or UTC-4 (for DST in effect)
If I then check the display in LBP PC, those times will be displayed as UTC-5, or UTC-4 (for DST in effect)

CORRECT???



2. In (Options)(Preferences)(Time Zone Settings) the selection of a “Logbook zone” ONLY affects HOW LBP PC treats and then displays (in LBP PC) the raw data times (as in Example 1) during an APDL synch, correct?
Example 2:
In (Timezone) menu (Zulu) is checked
In (Options)(Preferences)(Time Zone Settings) the “Logbook” zone is set to “UTC-5”

If Logbook Timezone is UTC-5 all time sent from APDL to Logbook Pro will be sent to the PC in UTC -5 minus a hour for DST being in effect.

The Import Schedule in is the timezone your company publishes its schedules in. A lot use LOCAL and tell APDL to use airport timezones during an import from the schedule importer. It has nothing to do with entering data manually into the device. Any data entered manually into the device needs to match the Logpage's timezone that you set when view the logpage.

Agreed and understood.
I receive my schedule in LOCAL and ZULU. I do not have the schedule importer program. I manually “import” all data in ZULU.

Hence, on my Logpage (Timezone)(Zulu) is CHECKED.

Raw data:

APDL OUT: 1500 (Z)
APDL IN: 1630 (Z)

After synchronizing this APDL entry, LBP PC displays:
OUT: 1000
IN: 1130

Both times reflecting UTC-5

Technically wrong because DST is in effect currently and the offset is UTC -4.
Sorry, my example was set in the winter. Thanks for correcting me.

Here are the Airport Settings:

EASTERN UTC -5 DST checked for any airport that uses DST during the year.
CENTRAL UTC -6 DST checked for any airport that uses DST during the year.
MOUNTAIN UTC -7 DST checked for any airport that uses DST during the year.
PACIFIC UTC -8 DST checked for any airport that uses DST during the year.

Then under OPTIONS...PREFS...TIMEZONE SETTINGS you should have the following

DOMICILE UTC -X
DST CHECKED (if your bases uses DST at any time during the year)

LOGBOOK UTC -X
DST CHECKED (if you use DST at any time during the year where you keep your logbook) NOTE: You should never changes this once set. That way you will always know what timezone your Logbook is kept in)

You caution against changing this timezone.(See Jun’05 newsletter) This warning applies AFTER THE FIRST SYNCHRONIZATION, so that all SUBSEQUENTLY synch’d data is displayed in LBP PC in the same timezone.
In other words, BEFORE THE FIRST SYNCH, this timezone can be corrected to the desired setting.


Example:
I have several months worth entered in my APDL PPC, but have NOT YET SYNCH’D anything. I can still correct my Logbook timezone to ZULU/UTC. This must be done before the FIRST SYNCH!!!

CORRECT???

IMPORT SCHEDULES IN: (NORMALY) LOCAL This is the timezone that your company publishes your flying schedule in that you will be pasting into the schedule importer for APDL.

DST is in effect check box. This box is currently checked and is the only box you need to change 2x a year for DST. The checkboxes for DST in the airport settings are never changed.




Thanks for your continued help.
 

Eric Addis

Senior Support Engineer
Staff member
Joined
Jan 18, 2003
Messages
828
Location
DTW
My response/questions are in BLUE



Timezones in APDL
1. In the (Timezone) menu, at the bottom of the screen, the options of (Logbook), (Zulu), (Local) or (Domicile) denote the timezone of the manually entered and displayed OUT/IN times (raw data) in APDL, correct?

The timezone at the bottom of the screen changes all times on the logpage to that time zone. Also any data you enter on that page should be in the selected timezone. Alot of us import our schedules in LOCAL because that is what they are published in and then change the Logpage to ZULU/GMT to enter the actuall times because that is what the FMS shows time in.

Agreed and understood.

Example 1:
If (Timezone) (Zulu) is CHECKED; and annunciated at top of the screen with Logpage (Zulu), then APDL treats these raw data times as ZULU-times for subsequent synch’ing.

NO, Under OPTIONS....Prefs....Timezone Settings all times set TO Logbook pro FROM APDL are converted to to the LOGBOOK TIMEZONE setting.


I think, we understand the process the same way.
All “time conversions” occur within the APDL PPC environment. LBP PC is just a “dumb” receiver of whatever “numbers” come from APDL PPC.

Correct...LBP just takes the times from APDL however APDL sends them. Which is why it is importer to properly setup your airports and pick a Logbook Timezone to keep your times in.


Example:
If (Timezone) (Zulu) is CHECKED; and annunciated at top of the screen with Logpage (Zulu), then APDL treats these raw data times as ZULU-times. It sends these ZULU times to (Options)(Preferences)(Time Zone Settings)(Logbook) and converts them according to the selected UTC offset, e.g. UTC-5, or UTC-4 (for DST in effect)
If I then check the display in LBP PC, those times will be displayed as UTC-5, or UTC-4 (for DST in effect)

CORRECT???

NO, it just tells APDL that you are entering times on that page in ZULU. It will then use the setting you have in your airports setups to convert to appropriate timezone when desired. You need to have your airports properly setup in addition to setting the Logbook timezone.


2. In (Options)(Preferences)(Time Zone Settings) the selection of a “Logbook zone” ONLY affects HOW LBP PC treats and then displays (in LBP PC) the raw data times (as in Example 1) during an APDL synch, correct?
Example 2:
In (Timezone) menu (Zulu) is checked
In (Options)(Preferences)(Time Zone Settings) the “Logbook” zone is set to “UTC-5”

If Logbook Timezone is UTC-5 all time sent from APDL to Logbook Pro will be sent to the PC in UTC -5 minus a hour for DST being in effect.

The Import Schedule in is the timezone your company publishes its schedules in. A lot use LOCAL and tell APDL to use airport timezones during an import from the schedule importer. It has nothing to do with entering data manually into the device. Any data entered manually into the device needs to match the Logpage's timezone that you set when view the logpage.

Agreed and understood.
I receive my schedule in LOCAL and ZULU. I do not have the schedule importer program. I manually “import” all data in ZULU.

Hence, on my Logpage (Timezone)(Zulu) is CHECKED.

the schedule importer is available at https://schedule.logbookpro.com and is hosted online. There is no PC version of it.

Raw data:

APDL OUT: 1500 (Z)
APDL IN: 1630 (Z)

After synchronizing this APDL entry, LBP PC displays:
OUT: 1000
IN: 1130

Both times reflecting UTC-5

Technically wrong because DST is in effect currently and the offset is UTC -4.
Sorry, my example was set in the winter. Thanks for correcting me.

Here are the Airport Settings:

EASTERN UTC -5 DST checked for any airport that uses DST during the year.
CENTRAL UTC -6 DST checked for any airport that uses DST during the year.
MOUNTAIN UTC -7 DST checked for any airport that uses DST during the year.
PACIFIC UTC -8 DST checked for any airport that uses DST during the year.

Then under OPTIONS...PREFS...TIMEZONE SETTINGS you should have the following

DOMICILE UTC -X
DST CHECKED (if your bases uses DST at any time during the year)

LOGBOOK UTC -X
DST CHECKED (if you use DST at any time during the year where you keep your logbook) NOTE: You should never changes this once set. That way you will always know what timezone your Logbook is kept in)

You caution against changing this timezone.(See Jun’05 newsletter) This warning applies AFTER THE FIRST SYNCHRONIZATION, so that all SUBSEQUENTLY synch’d data is displayed in LBP PC in the same timezone.
In other words, BEFORE THE FIRST SYNCH, this timezone can be corrected to the desired setting.


Example:
I have several months worth entered in my APDL PPC, but have NOT YET SYNCH’D anything. I can still correct my Logbook timezone to ZULU/UTC. This must be done before the FIRST SYNCH!!!

CORRECT???

The warning about changing the LOGBOOK timezone only affects your Logbook accuracy. e.g. if you change it too much you will end up forgetting what timezone your flights were imported in.

Changing your Airport UTC offsets may affect data already in APDL. It is best to fully setup up APDL prior to logging time in it.




IMPORT SCHEDULES IN: (NORMALY) LOCAL This is the timezone that your company publishes your flying schedule in that you will be pasting into the schedule importer for APDL.

DST is in effect check box. This box is currently checked and is the only box you need to change 2x a year for DST. The checkboxes for DST in the airport settings are never changed.

 

yankee clipper

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2006
Messages
53
Part III

Example:
If (Timezone) (Zulu) is CHECKED; and annunciated at top of the screen with Logpage (Zulu), then APDL treats these raw data times as ZULU-times. It sends these ZULU times to (Options)(Preferences)(Time Zone Settings)(Logbook) and converts them according to the selected UTC offset, e.g. UTC-5, or UTC-4 (for DST in effect)
If I then check the display in LBP PC, those times will be displayed as UTC-5, or UTC-4 (for DST in effect)

CORRECT???

NO, it just tells APDL that you are entering times on that page in ZULU. It will then use the setting you have in your airports setups to convert to appropriate timezone when desired. You need to have your airports properly setup in addition to setting the Logbook timezone.


Elaborate on how the airport setups, i.e. UTC offsets, impact a synch’ing.

And how the manually entered actual times go through the APDL INTERNAL CONVERSIONS to be output into LBP PC.

Address how the

  • Logbook page (Timezone),
  • Airport settings (UTC offset),
  • LBP PC logbook timezone in (Options)(Preferences)(Time Zone Settings)(Logbook)
interact with each other, and how they affect each step of the synchronization.
HOW will the times be displayed in LBP PC afterwards?


Please, use the following example pilots and their specific method of keeping time. Please show the output/display for LBP PC for each Example Pilot.



The Sample Flight is:
KJFK (UTC -5, DST in effect) to KLAX (UTC -8, DST in effect), today’s date,
OUT 1300est/1700Z,
IN 1500pst/2200Z

Example Pilot A (me):

  • Imports schedule in Zulu. Has (Timezone)(Zulu) on Logbook page.
  • Actual Times are entered into APDL in Zulu directly from FMS screen (I recall that’s how you do it).
  • LBP PC is also kept in Zulu/UTC
  • Domicile UTC-5, DST in effect

Example Pilot B:

  • Import schedule in Local time. Has (Timezone)(Local) on Logbook page
  • Actual Times are entered into APDL in Local
  • LBP PC is kept in Domicile
  • Domicile UTC-5, DST in effect

Example Pilot C:

  • Import schedule in Local time. Has (Timezone)(Local) on Logbook page
  • Actual Times are entered into APDL in Zulu from FMS
  • LBP PC is kept in Domicile
  • Domicile UTC-5, DST in effect



Based on my current understanding I would expect the Example Pilot A times to interact like this:

  • APDL OUT 1700Z, entered from FMS info
  • Arpt UTC offset doesn’t matter as time is in Zulu, no conversion occurs
  • LBP PC receives 1700Z data from APDL. Logbook timezone is also in Zulu, therefore no conversion occurs here neither.
  • LBP PC displays 1700Z in the my OUT column
  • Domcile time is ignored, because everything is done in Zulu

APDL IN 2200Z
The in time is converted in the same fashion.




My goal is to have APDL & LBP configured entirely in Zulu, so that years from now I never have to worry about what timezone the data was originally entered in.

Thank you

 

Neal Culiner

Founder, President
Staff member
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
12,574
Location
VA
Hello,

Logbook Pro will sync the dates/times as shown in APDL. You can experiment with syncing to get a better idea how it works. Be sure to backup your Logbook Pro data file (File..Backup) in the event you need to revert to a backup. For more information please view the documentation for both APDL and Logbook Pro found at NC Software Product Documentation

Thank you.
 

yankee clipper

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2006
Messages
53
Neal,
I reviewed the product documentation before I began this thread. Unfortunately, APDL only rudimentary addresses how the synch'ing works, prompting this thread.

I expected this thread to be much shorter, however, every forum response added addtional questions.

Would appreciate it , if the final aspect of airport UTC offset (which Eric brought up on his last response) is addressed.

Thanks for all your help.
 
Top