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121 supplemental


Feb 24, 2005

I am looking for a logbook program that will help me keep myself legal in 121 supplemental operation.
I know that this program has a 121 Report feature that shows 121 Domestic and Flag time limitations, but will it/can it do the same for domestic and international 121 Supplemental operations with 3-6 crewmembers (standard, heavy, and double crews)?

Hello Art,

Please reply with URL's (links) to FAR references to what you require and I'll see what can be done. We received requests for additional FAR 135 time checks as well so we are working on that for which hopefully will be ready next month.

Hi Neal,

The FARs governing flight and duty times for 121 supplemental are contained in FAR 121.500 - 121.525

I found them on the web under http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:

Based on my data, the following regs play part:

Basic rules:

121.503d 100 hrs in 30 consecutive days
121.503e 1000 hrs in calendar year
121.503c need 24 hrs off once every 7 consecutive days

For international operations under 121 supplemental:

121.515 1000hrs in any 12 calendar month period
121.521b need 24 hrs off once every 7 consecutive days
121.521c 120 hrs in 30 consecutive days
121.521c 300 hrs in 90 consecutive days
121.523f 350 hrs in 90 consecutive days : 3 or more pilots

I think it would be helpful to incorporate a way (flag) to mark each flight as domestic/international/basic crew/heavy-or-double-crew, and have the program warn you any time if you fall under provisions of 121.525 (Flight time limitations: Pilots serving in more than one kind of flight crew)


I'm going to have to think hard on this. The time calculations for these are already in 1.9.8. If I'm missing something, let me know. I kind of went "out of bounds" from my design objectives of not supporting any particular country, regulation, etc. I don't want to tie Logbook Pro to any regs for multiple reasons: 1) Triggering updats with reg changes, 2) Keeping Logbook Pro global, and 3) Maintaining maximum flexibility.

I put the 121/135 features in because it's a quick bandaid of information until the next version handles this better. What I intend to do is extend the currency system or create a new system such that you can create time flags and essentially build in your own regulation monitors.

But for now, none of the time (hours) criteria you mention are new. Since Logbook Pro doesn't handle duty time or calculate from it, you may want to look at Airline Pilot's Daily Aviation PDA logbook as a Logbook Pro companion product for FAR 121 specific handling.


I understand ypu concern about not wanting to tie the program to any regs. And as you see all the 121 suppl. restrictions exist already in 121 domestic and flag - just perhaps in different mix and position. So you could extend the 'bandaid' approach by perhaps adding another menu item - '121 suppl' that would use the calculations already existing in the program and just present the information in the fashion pertinent to 121 suppl. operations.

If you would incorporate a way for a user to easily create flexible user defined time limits, together with allowing the user to flag any flight time in a variety of custom ways (whether it be 'for hire', 'domestic', 'international', '3 pilots', 'centerline thrust' etc etc) - to allow us to build any currency or time limit monitor - that would be an ultimate solution!

>Since Logbook Pro doesn't handle duty time or calculate from it, you may want to look at Airline Pilot's Daily Aviation PDA logbook as >a Logbook Pro companion product for FAR 121 specific handling

But I don't have nor want to have a PDA /Forums/emoticons/smile.gif I bought a laptop to take to work with me which can do more that any PDA, and the last thing I want is another gadget to drag around. If you would incorporate a duty-time aware functions into the Logbook Pro though I would be willing to pay premium for it.


I understand, sorry, didn't think about the PDA situation as it just seemed everyone has one these days! I'll make a note to look into the supplementals and look forward to building a great system in version 2 to allow complete flexibility and control of these type of requirements.


When do you expect version 2 to be out?

If I buy version 1.x.x now will I have to buy version 2 when it comes out? (just trying to decide what will be the most logical way of acquiring the software that fulfills my needs)


Version 2 is nowhere close. We are still working on new features coming out in 1.x which is a solid, mature, proven product. There are two new items in the works that are the focus of effort now for the 1.x series. It is by no means obsolete and we want to continue and improve a few elements which we'll announce in the next few months. We are not going to rush version 2 as version 1 is solid and extremely powerful. Version 2 will come when it's ready and I don't have any time frame to announce at this time. I've made a mistake in the past of estimating a time frame, then we rolled efforts back in to 1.x instead of holding them off for version 2. Version 1 has been out for 7 years now and as many can attest, it's gone through quite the changes and by keeping it as version 1.x, I can maintain free upgrades. Version 2 will cost a small upgrade fee, but that's not the priority at this time but instead improving the feature set and continuing to hammer away at 1.x to ensure you get the most out of it.


I finally got through training and started flying the line, so I have started logging my timeand evaluating the program. Since the lookback FAR 121 feature is set up for flag 121 and not supplemental 121 I work under, I wonder if you could either:

1. Add a 121 Suppl as a separate item on lookback menu (the only additional counter would be 100 hrs in 30 days - the other ones would be reusable from 121 flag)

or just

2. Add user controlled on/off setup switches to existing counters - that way I would use existing FAR 121 lookback and just turn of counters that are not applicable. I don't want to tell scheduling that I can not take a trip because I am illegal for it as a result of looking at a wrong counter - it could have career limiting results...


Logbook Pro 1.9.9 now officially supports FAR 121 Supplemental. Beta expected mid-next week. Please check the forums (here) for announcement of the beta and availability. I'd appreciate your testing if able.